Lia Rodrigues: Everything we do is political

Additional information about the performance Borda, which will be presented on 7 June at the Boris Hristov House of Culture, Plovdiv can be found here. Tickets are on sale at EasyPay box offices nationwide and online from EPAYGO.

Lia Rodrigues is among the most prominent Brazilian dancers and choreographers. After returning from France, she founded the Lia Rodrigues Companhia de Danças in Rio in 1992. The same year, she founded the annual Contemporary Dance Festival Panorama de Dança, which she ran until 2005. Since 2004, Lia has been working in the favela of Maré, a disadvantaged and densely populated area on the outskirts of Rio. It led to the opening of the Centre for the Arts of Maré (2009) and the Free Dance School of Maré (2011). Lia Rodrigues was awarded several prizes throughout her career, including the French Chevalier des Arts et des Lettres Medal (2007).

Hello, Lia. Thank you for the interview. It is a busy moment for you amidst creating your new piece, BORDA, and touring the show ENCANTADO, one of the final four nominations for the first-ever Rose International Dance Award by Sadler’s Wells. ENCANTADO began in the Mare Favela, one of the poorest parts of Rio, and became one of the most successful dance works in the world. With roots in traditional culture, it has been on an extensive tour for three years. Did you expect all of this, and what does it mean to you?

It's good that such a prize exists but let's not look at it as a race. Let's talk about promoting and advocating for dance in general.

ENCANTADO is not about traditions at all. It is inspired by many things, but also it's important to see Brazil as a contemporary country. We have contemporary art. We have everything in our country. Even if we are below the line of the Equator, as it means a lot for people to look at us, we still work. Apart from the fact that I work in a favela, we make our creations just like artists in Europe. There is no difference in general.

I have a long career behind me — 35 years as a choreographer — and I am not holding onto the success of a piece. Every production is a process. It is a long way to go, and you build up with small steps. And no place is for sure and forever. When a piece is ready and introduced to the audience, it is not its end or conclusion. I don't see the world like this. Quite the opposite - what I see is an ongoing process, everyday work. I am a worker. I do my job like anyone else.

Yes, the success of ENCANTADO is significant. It's great that it's selling so well. We live from this, after all. Artists pay rent, eat, and work to have a normal life. Of course, I'm so happy, but I cannot be preoccupied with it or what it should achieve. Otherwise, I will not produce anything anymore. You know, when you are a mother, I have three children, they are all important. They are all a part of you, even though they are so different from each other. They have their own life and carry their beautiful and difficult things together. And I see my piece this way, too.

The music in ENCANTADO is special. Can you explain more about it? It will help us understand complexity as a choreographer, and your particular approach to every single part of a stage production - dance, set design, music, costumes.

Yes, I wanted to choose music to support the dancers and the piece. I was looking here and there. And then, there was a demonstration by indigenous people against the demarcation of their land. It is a very important movement in Brazil. So, people were protesting by singing and playing music in Brasilia, the capital of Brazil. I find this form of protesting very strong, combining words and music. I started working with a musician to mix and loop the music.

Your work relates closely to issues like freedom, human rights, poverty, inequality, oppression, and colonial oppression. Is there art without a political message?

There is no individual without a political message. Everything we do is political. However, I don't see myself as busy with this. I do my work, but everyone has a role in society. As I live in a very unequal and racist country and come from a position with privileges, I think I have a responsibility as a citizen. It's impossible to separate my role as a citizen from my artistic job, let's say, my career. Everything is one.

There is no way to be apolitical. To be apolitical is to be political.

Making art in the name of beauty or entertainment is also a position.

Yeah, and it’s also good that such art exists. It's beautiful to see a piece of art or read a poem that is not about big problems. Because messages can be given in different ways to the audience. Freedom is also to look at a picture and receive images in your mind. I don't want to send any messages to anyone. I just want to be able to put fiction in movements on the stage.

In your long career, you have found many different ways to articulate your ideas. So what has changed over the years?

I can’t say much about dance around the world, not even in Brazil. It’s a huge country, a continental country. I'm mostly involved with my projects in Maré, with the art centre, the dance school and my creations. The truth is I don't have much time to follow what’s going on. When I have time, of course, I do.

You know, I created and directed a dance festival for a long time. So, I have this routine inside of me to search, see, and think about how to program my festival, if I am to have one again.

I like to open space for new pieces for the young generation. It is crucial to support them because they will carry on our art-making. I always see every new piece as a process for me to learn. The tools are there, the artists and the people around me are there. But it's a new adventure every time. You have to build from the very beginning. I have to have time to experience new ideas. So, I'm always learning.

Do you start with choreography alone and then create the set design and the music, or does it all come together? How is the process for you?

It is a combination of everything. Sometimes, like now, the work is less because of the hard conditions in the favela. Normally, I like to have at least eight or nine months to work every day. It allows us to go deep inside and experiment with many different things. It’s a fluid process. Of course, I think beforehand and then talk with my artistic consultant. We share books, ideas, etc. I also listen and share with the dancers what I imagine. They are free to come up with ideas and propose material. And in a moment, the work itself shows us a way to go. All nine dancers in my company dance in ENCANTADO and the new piece, BORDA.

How many dancers attend the dance school in Mare?

The dance school is a separate project, although two graduates now work in my company. They are so different because the dance school is not a professional company. More than 300 people attend it. They are all amateur dancers of all ages, from 6 to 85 years.

It's a huge project, let's say, a pedagogical project, not an artistic one. There is a group of 23 young students from 16 to 23 years of age, and they receive a formal, free education and a grant to be able to be there every day, three hours a day. In a nutshell, it is how the school functions.

 I can only imagine what the opportunity to pursue a dance career means for them.

I hope it does. It's hard to measure the school’s impact as the favela is like a city with 140,000 inhabitants. Everything seems very small, given the number of people who live there.

In an interview, you call dance “human education”. And it also brings happiness, especially in such conditions.

Yes, you are right. There is some happiness, let's say. People like the school, but education and pedagogy are not about being happy. It's about being aware. So, I am looking for them to be conscious of their bodies. What matters is creating more opportunities to attend a dance school from a democratic perspective. All this is part of the project. But there are crises also. There are many issues we have to deal with.

Why did you choose to work in Mare after your successful career in Europe in the 90s?

When I came back from France, I decided to move to Rio. It took me a while before going to Mare. There, I created my career as a dancer, choreographer and director of the Panorama Dance Festival. While organising the festival, I knew I could do more. I had my company running, too. But how about going the pedagogical way? University professor Silvia Sote introduced me to an NGO, Redes de Mare. Together, we started talking about the dance school. It is part of my life now. Almost 20 years later, I am in Mare developing this educational project.

Your dance company is also there. How is making art possible in such a place like the fac\vela? With all the challenges like space for rehearsals or resources.

The question of resources is impossible to come second because we struggle so much in Brazil to survive as artists. It's hard. My company only survives because of the money from Europe. It is sad for me to realize it. So, I need to work hard to maintain what I believe in and provide the conditions to create, uphold the projects and run the dance school. Unfortunately, my country does not support it. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that I'm there. It's where I work.

 There are so many Brazilian dancers in need of a space. I prefer to work with Brazilian artists, not because I don't like other artists, but because I want to give them more opportunities. And I love working in my own space. It's a beautiful space but so hard to build and maintain. There are many issues, like normal heat or cooling when it gets 42 degrees inside. There are police raids in the favela, shootings, and crime. Sometimes, we run out of water. So, we need to face all these border situations, as we call them while creating a piece.

 It brings us to your work in progress, BORDA. Why did you choose this title and topic?

 I like it when a piece is free from its title. The title will not determine the piece, but the piece will find its way through the title. You are free to watch the piece the way you want. For BORDA, I found the title first and started working with it. It can have not two but three or four meanings. The border is the most obvious one. It can be a wall that protects or separates. It can also be a new beginning. Also, embroidery comes with passion and a common set of actions, creating a community.

Why did you choose to work in Mare after your successful career in Europe in the 90s?

When I came back from France, I decided to move to Rio. It took me a while before going to Mare. There, I created my career as a dancer, choreographer and director of the Panorama Dance Festival. While organising the festival, I knew I could do more. I had my company running, too. But how about going the pedagogical way? University professor Silvia Sote introduced me to an NGO, Redes de Mare. Together, we started talking about the dance school. It is part of my life now. Almost 20 years later, I am in Mare developing this educational project.

Your dance company is also there. How is making art possible in such a place like the fac\vela? With all the challenges like space for rehearsals or resources.

The question of resources is impossible to come second because we struggle so much in Brazil to survive as artists. It's hard. My company only survives because of the money from Europe. It is sad for me to realize it. So, I need to work hard to maintain what I believe in and provide the conditions to create, uphold the projects and run the dance school. Unfortunately, my country does not support it. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that I'm there. It's where I work.

 There are so many Brazilian dancers in need of a space. I prefer to work with Brazilian artists, not because I don't like other artists, but because I want to give them more opportunities. And I love working in my own space. It's a beautiful space but so hard to build and maintain. There are many issues, like normal heat or cooling when it gets 42 degrees inside. There are police raids in the favela, shootings, and crime. Sometimes, we run out of water. So, we need to face all these border situations, as we call them while creating a piece.

 It brings us to your work in progress, BORDA. Why did you choose this title and topic?

 I like it when a piece is free from its title. The title will not determine the piece, but the piece will find its way through the title. You are free to watch the piece the way you want. For BORDA, I found the title first and started working with it. It can have not two but three or four meanings. The border is the most obvious one. It can be a wall that protects or separates. It can also be a new beginning. Also, embroidery comes with passion and a common set of actions, creating a community.